Overall Impressions
All in all I think that this debate was less interesting than the Presidential debate. Also the performances as far as debating skill were fairly even. Cheney looked angry early and he did roll his eyes a few times, but he seemed to correct that fairly early in the debate. Edwards made a few minor flubs, and I felt he made one remark which appeared to be simply trying to call attention to the fact that Cheney's daughter was gay, for the sake of controversy alone. I found that distasteful.
That aside, Cheney's debating style was as about as sleazy as one could be. Constantly waiting until Edwards had no chance to rebut before slipping in a falsehood or derrogatory remark. For the most part Edwards didn't let him get away with it, but later in the debate he began ignoring some of the VP's charges, which was appropriate. He couldn't spend the whole evening on the defensive. Edwards was very eloquent and had some strong remarks here and there.
I can't imagine this debate swaying voters either way, and thus I am of the opinion that this debate was relatively unimportant.
Running Commentary
| Chuck | 8:58:05 PM | ok |
| Chuck | 8:58:11 PM | I'm on CSPAN2 |
| Chuck | 8:58:14 PM | no audio yet |
| James | 8:58:18 PM | Oh, I see. They're just getting in place. |
| James | 8:58:23 PM | Weird. OK. |
| Chuck | 8:58:59 PM | Oh there IS audio... just dead silence. |
| James | 8:59:22 PM | Maggie says "Cheney's almost life-like." |
| Chuck | 8:59:26 PM | Dick looks like he is going to bite off someone's head. |
| James | 9:00:25 PM | I wonder how much of this week's news will figure in. |
| Chuck | 9:00:37 PM | I think it is mostly going to be about Iraq. |
| Chuck | 9:00:53 PM | I'm sure Edwards will mention Bremer's complaint today. |
| James | 9:00:56 PM | Yes, probably. |
| James | 9:01:03 PM | I should think so. |
| James | 9:02:20 PM | Cheney does actually look more human than usual. Edwards looks relaxed. |
| Chuck | 9:02:52 PM | split screen... that allowed this time? |
| James | 9:03:11 PM | I don't think the candidates have any say in the coverage, just the debate format. |
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| James | 9:03:32 PM | Right in with the Bremer question. |
| Chuck | 9:03:36 PM | Yep |
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| James | 9:05:13 PM | Cheney has been asked specifically about Bremer, and he's going to avoid the question by speaking in generalities. He wants to paint the big picture so he can tell his whole story. Will he ever get to the question, though? |
| Chuck | 9:05:19 PM | No |
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| Chuck | 9:05:30 PM | Here comes the fear factor |
| James | 9:05:42 PM | I wonder if his aim is going to be to get people to change the channel. |
| James | 9:05:59 PM | Put the fear up front, get his comment in, and then bore people into changing the channel. |
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| Chuck | 9:06:32 PM | John Edwards ... right in there with ... YOU ARE NOT BEING STRAIGHT W/AMERICAN PEOPLE... he's not pulling punches. |
| James | 9:06:42 PM | No, he's come out swinging. |
| James | 9:07:04 PM | He's refocusing on the Bremer question. |
| Chuck | 9:07:27 PM | Cheney appears to be struggling to contain his anger. |
| James | 9:07:58 PM | I think you're right. He does seem angry! |
| Chuck | 9:08:16 PM | If he get's mad, he blows this debate. |
| Chuck | 9:08:20 PM | And Edwards knows it |
| Chuck | 9:08:26 PM | That's why he is pushing his buttons |
| James | 9:08:38 PM | Edwards is smart to focus on Cheney's refusal to leave the Iraq/al Quaeda connection behind. |
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| James | 9:09:00 PM | Now Edwards has to handle Kerry's criticism of the war. |
| James | 9:09:15 PM | Another chance to clarify their position and harp on the missing weapons. |
| James | 9:09:25 PM | So far the questions are favoring Edwards |
| James | 9:09:57 PM | Perhaps the facts have an anti-Bush agenda. |
| Chuck | 9:10:03 PM | We'll see |
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| James | 9:10:37 PM | Edwards: "Listen carefully to the veep: there is no connection." |
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| Chuck | 9:10:57 PM | ooooh |
| Chuck | 9:11:08 PM | Cheney's got a new spin on the Iraq war. |
| Chuck | 9:11:13 PM | Yet ANOTHER new spin. |
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| James | 9:11:32 PM | Aha, the global test. Edwards has to be ready for this distortion. |
| Chuck | 9:11:37 PM | Yeah |
| Chuck | 9:11:48 PM | Edwards doesn't look shaken. |
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| James | 9:12:17 PM | Edwards is going to ask for more time to respond. He's not going to get it now. |
| Chuck | 9:12:23 PM | yeah |
| James | 9:14:12 PM | Mike sends this link: Cheney link of Iraq, 9/11 challenged - http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/16/cheney_link_of_iraq_911_challenged/ |
| James | 9:14:37 PM | Meanwhile, Cheney has been given the opportunity to blather on about Afghanistan. |
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| James | 9:15:19 PM | Edward brings back the point, we turned our attention away from Afghanistan. He's using the remaining time to go back to Cheney's distortion on Iraq/9-11 |
| James | 9:16:46 PM | As Josh Marshall said, this isn't about Edwards and Cheney. They're sticking to Bush v. Kerry. |
| James | 9:17:38 PM | Back to the Global Test with this question. |
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| James | 9:17:50 PM | "What is a global test" Edwards is asked. |
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| Chuck | 9:19:23 PM | Edwards brings it to American credibility. Thank you! |
| James | 9:19:27 PM | Edwards repeats Kerry's assertion that no one will be given a veto of the American people. He is stressing the credibility issue, but it isn't really working. He needs to make it more clear that the global test isn't an actual test. |
| James | 9:19:37 PM | I agree, he's on the right track. |
| James | 9:19:43 PM | But can he drive it home? |
| James | 9:21:01 PM | Cheney will never address credibility. It's not part of his equation. He's in "computer mode" in the gentle art of verbal self defense. I swear he's trying to bore the audience intentionally. |
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| Chuck | 9:21:18 PM | Back to the flip/flop bullshit. |
| Chuck | 9:21:24 PM | I'm so sick of this nonsense. |
| James | 9:21:52 PM | Mike drew my attention to the sly insult "you probably weren't there to vote for that." |
| Chuck | 9:21:58 PM | Inoticed that |
| James | 9:22:36 PM | Oh, snap. Cheney is just sayign "you're plain wrong, and your facts suck.: |
| James | 9:22:59 PM | The mud is flying. |
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| Chuck | 9:23:23 PM | OOOO! |
| Chuck | 9:23:38 PM | Cheney recommended against those weapon systems too! |
| James | 9:23:42 PM | Cheney is launching into an extended attack on John Kerry's judgment. Starting with that silly vote BS |
| James | 9:23:46 PM | Yeah |
| Chuck | 9:23:53 PM | That's just sleazy! |
| James | 9:24:34 PM | Cheney is extremely smooth. This is a rattle royal, but the knives are all hidden. |
| Chuck | 9:25:02 PM | I hope Edwards isn't constantly on the defensive like this |
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| Chuck | 9:25:22 PM | BODY BLOW!! |
| James | 9:25:31 PM | Edwards is smart to try to drag it all into the open. Sneaky attacks are going to work in Cheney's favor. But you're right, Cheney has put him on the defensive. |
| Chuck | 9:26:10 PM | Edwards calls Cheney on his duplicity with regard to wep systems. |
| James | 9:26:13 PM | He has to defend Kerry quickly and get back in there and hit Bush hard. Now he drage Halliburton's no bid contracts in. |
| Chuck | 9:26:25 PM | Cheney's not going to answer the charge |
| James | 9:26:29 PM | No |
| Chuck | 9:26:32 PM | He's repeating himself |
| Chuck | 9:26:44 PM | Hi I'm Dick Cheney, and I'm a commercial. Again. |
| James | 9:27:32 PM | It seems like these questions are whizzing by. Lots of numbers and details. |
| James | 9:27:45 PM | Both of these opponents are able to sling details. |
| James | 9:29:12 PM | So far there is a lot of mud and I don't see a clear leader. Cheney has successfully kept Edwards catching up. The average voter is not |
| James | 9:29:20 PM | going to follow most of this. |
| James | 9:29:41 PM | Edwards is having to split his answers to answer Cheney's charges |
| James | 9:30:04 PM | Cheney starts every answer with a slur against Edward's accuracy |
| James | 9:30:10 PM | An insult with every answer. |
| James | 9:31:13 PM | Cheney accuses Kerry of not having an Iraq plan and just moves right on. He's doing this rapid-fire to keep Edwards busy. |
| James | 9:31:54 PM | Good, Edwards is just going to pick one silly assertion (like the size of the coalition) and pick on that. 90% of the cost is Americans. |
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| James | 9:32:47 PM | Cheney is claiming that Edwards is demeaning Iraqi's and coalition's sacrifices. All he's going to do is put words into Edwards' mouth. Over and over again. |
| Chuck | 9:33:03 PM | Yes. A lot of "this is what he said". |
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| James | 9:34:02 PM | Right. Instead of answering he's just going to restate Edwards questions. A nasty tactic. How will Edwards counter that? Currently he's taking a good approach. Are you goingto believe the vice president or your own eyes? |
| James | 9:35:10 PM | Again, Edwards is having to play catch up. Edwards is going to have to let some of these charges slide and attack. |
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| James | 9:36:23 PM | Al Zarquawi (sp?) did not have a training camp in Saddam-controlled Iraq. |
| Chuck | 9:36:43 PM | Yeah he was in Kurdish controlled Iraq. |
| James | 9:37:26 PM | But Cheney slides right by that and conflates the terrorist with Saddam again. Cheney is throwing these things in at the end of his responses, when they are about to be given another question. Edwards will have no chance to respond. |
| Chuck | 9:38:23 PM | Cheney looks very ... hunched |
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| Chuck | 9:38:45 PM | Here comes Libya again. |
| James | 9:38:46 PM | Mike says he's happy with Edwards' ability to respond within his time to Cheney's last attack. I think Edwards is doing as well as he can against Cheney's distortions. |
| James | 9:39:31 PM | Edwards brings up Iran. |
| James | 9:39:44 PM | The moderator questions are almost superfluous here now. |
| James | 9:40:11 PM | Edwards has switched back to Halliburton. |
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| James | 9:40:35 PM | Halliburton is linked to Iran and bribing officials in Iran. |
| James | 9:40:58 PM | Cheney is just saying the charges are false. |
| James | 9:41:06 PM | Brings up factcheck.org |
| James | 9:41:25 PM | (Slashdotted) |
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| Chuck | 9:41:44 PM | Edwards is restating: these are the facts |
| James | 9:41:51 PM | Well done |
| James | 9:42:03 PM | Edwards is unshaken. Very well done. |
| James | 9:42:25 PM | Imagine how tough it must be to respond to Cheney's constant attacks. Cool customer, Edwards. |
| Chuck | 9:42:46 PM | Yes, he's eloquent and able. |
| James | 9:44:18 PM | Edwards drags in Israel AND the Saudis. |
| James | 9:44:44 PM | Cheney is attacking Edwards record directly now. |
| Chuck | 9:44:45 PM | Cheney isn't going to let Halliburton go, and he's going to sling big mud. |
| James | 9:44:50 PM | Right |
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| James | 9:45:05 PM | Oh, here we go. |
| James | 9:45:22 PM | Cheney accuses Edwards of never being int he senate, pretty much ever. |
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| Chuck | 9:45:30 PM | Oh Christ. Saddam "created" the suicide bombers? |
| Chuck | 9:45:40 PM | Saddam threw financing at them to try to win allies!!!! |
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| James | 9:46:23 PM | Good - Edwards will attack back rather than answering the silly attack. |
| Chuck | 9:47:24 PM | Domestic issues... |
| Chuck | 9:47:36 PM | Questions about Cleveland and the economy |
| Chuck | 9:48:42 PM | Cheney --> get people jobs (how?) --> make America friendly to business (tax policy, litigation costs {i.e. caps}, medical care) --> strong education (no child left behind... the great unfunded education act.) |
| James | 9:50:09 PM | Edwards highlights Cheney's wandering answer. Cheney doesn't want to talk about jobs. Here's Edwards opening to talk about poverty in Cleveland. |
| Chuck | 9:51:18 PM | Edwards --> 1.6 mil jobs lost in Bush admin, 2.7 mil manufacturing jobs lost --> 4 mil people fell thru poverty line --> FIRST administration in the last 70 years to have that happen --> outsourcing Bush for, Kerry against |
| Chuck | 9:51:26 PM | Cheney --> We cut taxes, we rule. |
| James | 9:51:31 PM | Cheney is amazing with the numbers. |
| James | 9:52:04 PM | I have to say that anyone leaning towards Bush/Cheney is going to just watch this mesmerized by Cheney. |
| James | 9:52:52 PM | Good rejoinder by Edwards there. He doesn't think the country can take four more years of this kind of experience. |
| Chuck | 9:52:59 PM | Yes |
| James | 9:53:31 PM | Edwards has got Cheney off his attacks a little bit, or Cheney has lost a little steam. |
| James | 9:53:57 PM | Edwards is now talking about middle class tax cuts vs. the high end tax cuts. |
| Chuck | 9:54:26 PM | INCOMING! |
| James | 9:54:35 PM | Edwards: we're in too deep a hole, but we can cut the deficit. Fiscal responsibility. Corporate loopholes. |
| James | 9:54:49 PM | Cheney: Kerry's record is one of taxes, taxes, taxes. |
| James | 9:56:24 PM | As Mike and I are discussing, this is just like Meet the Press. Cheney is always on Meet the Press. He's jst doing the same thing. |
| James | 9:56:34 PM | Our frogs are makign happy sounds at John Edwards. |
| Chuck | 9:57:02 PM | same sex union ban |
| James | 9:58:59 PM | This format is much better for Cheney than Town Meeting. He can sit here and say anything he wants, basically. |
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| James | 9:59:13 PM | Oh, Edwards is going to drag in the daughter. |
| James | 9:59:27 PM | Cheney's gay daughter. Where is this going? |
| James | 10:00:04 PM | Nowhere. He switched off it. |
| Chuck | 10:00:10 PM | I think that was kind of a dirty move by Edwards |
| Chuck | 10:00:24 PM | He's just drawing attention to the fact that Cheney has a gay daughter. |
| Chuck | 10:00:37 PM | Trying to make him look bad to the religious right. |
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| James | 10:00:44 PM | He slipped it in, but he didn't go anywhere. Cheney may take him to task over it. Edwards shouldn't have brought it up if he didn't have a point. |
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| Chuck | 10:02:16 PM | WOW |
| James | 10:02:25 PM | Yeah |
| James | 10:02:29 PM | Nothing |
| Chuck | 10:02:34 PM | Cheney doesn't challenge Edwards at ALL on the constitutional amendment |
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| Chuck | 10:02:59 PM | Okay here we go with litigation caps |
| James | 10:03:52 PM | Cheney is going to hammer on fear of losing doctors to lawsuits. |
| Chuck | 10:04:04 PM | Yes... he's not going to talk about victims |
| James | 10:04:16 PM | It will be interesting to see how Edwards answers this. |
| James | 10:04:36 PM | He'll probably focus on the victims, and on corporate crime. |
| Chuck | 10:04:49 PM | Yes |
| James | 10:05:01 PM | Yep, there he goes. Big companies. |
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| James | 10:06:05 PM | Edwards takes the anecdote route. 5 year old Valerie. |
| Chuck | 10:06:10 PM | Well done |
| James | 10:07:01 PM | Edwards concedes the malpractice cost problem |
| James | 10:07:24 PM | They have a plan to handle frivolous lawsuits, but it's not a cap. |
| Chuck | 10:07:30 PM | I like it |
| James | 10:07:52 PM | Mike and Maggie and I agree: Boring debate. TMI. |
| James | 10:08:31 PM | It's the battle of the details and unanswered attacks. |
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| Chuck | 10:08:51 PM | Cheney takes anecdote route now, Edwards waxes lyrical about 5 year old girls injured in pools, and Cheney waxes lyrical the story of a successful company. |
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| Chuck | 10:09:51 PM | smack for smack |
| James | 10:10:04 PM | Cheney is insinuating Edwards is a tax dodger. |
| Chuck | 10:10:10 PM | And vice versa |
| James | 10:10:24 PM | Edwards comes back that he paid what the law required, just like other companies. |
| Chuck | 10:11:03 PM | Subject switches to AIDS. |
| James | 10:11:08 PM | AIDS now. BLack women are 13 times more likely to die. |
| James | 10:11:22 PM | Moderator: What is the administration's plan. |
| James | 10:11:37 PM | Cheney acknowledges the problem. |
| Chuck | 10:13:43 PM | Edwards is touching on Africa... subject of question was American AIDS. Edwards is recapping VP, but saying it isn't enough. |
| Chuck | 10:13:53 PM | He's taking it back to healthcare. |
| James | 10:14:02 PM | Edwards is trying to appeal to moral issue in his AIDS answer, draggin Darfur in. |
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| James | 10:14:57 PM | Edwards is answering a question about his qualifications. |
| James | 10:15:05 PM | "We will tell the truth" |
| Chuck | 10:15:10 PM | 1. President/Vice President must keep Americans safe 2. P/VP must have good judgement 3. P/VP must be honest. |
| Chuck | 10:15:39 PM | Edwards --> Edwards/Kerry have all these qualities. |
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| Chuck | 10:17:12 PM | Cheney says VP qualities depend on the needs of the President. |
| Chuck | 10:17:51 PM | Cheney is coming across very earnestly at this time. |
| James | 10:17:56 PM | Cheney is insinuating Edwards has an agenda, his political career. |
| Chuck | 10:18:01 PM | Yes. |
| James | 10:18:32 PM | Good for Edwards. Boosting Kerry. |
| James | 10:18:35 PM | Smart. |
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| James | 10:20:05 PM | The nominees have been asked to describe their differences. |
| James | 10:20:14 PM | Cheney says there are a lot of similarities. |
| Chuck | 10:20:20 PM | This would appear to be the get cuddly with the VP's question. |
| Chuck | 10:20:22 PM | So far |
| James | 10:20:46 PM | They both get their chance. As Mike points out, this is a job interview question. |
| James | 10:21:27 PM | Edwards wandered off on this question. |
| James | 10:21:53 PM | "We weren't attacked by Saddam Hussein" |
| James | 10:22:17 PM | Edwards makes the point, just before mentioning Kerry. Twice. Crap. |
| James | 10:22:33 PM | He'll hear about this one. |
| Chuck | 10:22:46 PM | JesusI hope he doesnt do it again |
| James | 10:22:57 PM | But I don't think devotion to the candidate is going to work against him too much. |
| Chuck | 10:23:27 PM | Edwards echoes Kerry's "be strong but be smart" well done, despite flubs |
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| James | 10:23:31 PM | A direct question about Flip Flopping |
| James | 10:23:59 PM | Interesting, it's framed as a question about flip flopping for BOTH candidates. |
| Chuck | 10:24:05 PM | good |
| Chuck | 10:24:12 PM | they both DO flip/flop |
| James | 10:24:19 PM | Not just Kerry. Tide turning on that meme? |
| James | 10:26:33 PM | Edwards just answered with a litany of Bush's flips. Cheney gets second answer, he'll be harder on Kerry. Edwards' rebuttal will be the important part of his answer. It would have been easier on Edwards if he's been the second response. |
| Chuck | 10:27:03 PM | Cheney's deferring to military commanders instead of Bremer's opinion. |
| James | 10:27:42 PM | 1/2 of African Americans are dropping out (Edwards) Wow, really? |
| James | 10:29:16 PM | I'll be glad when this is over. |
| Chuck | 10:29:23 PM | It's pretty dull |
| James | 10:29:34 PM | Cheney is acknowledging Bush's inability to be a uniter. |
| Chuck | 10:29:36 PM | They both seem to be doing well. Is there a clear winner? |
| James | 10:29:40 PM | No |
| James | 10:29:46 PM | Not in my opinion. |
| James | 10:30:16 PM | Edwards seemed a little tripped up wit that "Kerry" thing. |
| Chuck | 10:30:41 PM | Hardly seems like that matters much, but SNL would capitalize on it in a skit. |
| James | 10:30:55 PM | But it was battling stories. Cheney's answer now is typical of the debate. It seems a lot of words and little meat. |
| James | 10:31:38 PM | Edwards will attack the "uniter not a divider" -- good, it's not an accident, he says. Now he wants to switch to health care. |
| James | 10:32:04 PM | This is probably something he knew he wanted to leave in the viewer's minds. |
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| Chuck | 10:33:46 PM | This is a powerful response from Edwards. |
| James | 10:33:53 PM | Edwards gets one last chance to hammer it. "They're with the companies. We're with the people" |
| James | 10:34:28 PM | Closing statements, Edwards first. |
| James | 10:35:31 PM | He's appealing directly to what we see. "You see it, they don't" Again, believe your eyes, not the administration. |
| James | 10:35:38 PM | It could be a strong message. |
| James | 10:35:56 PM | I'm interested to see the viewer response. |
| James | 10:36:41 PM | Cheney's closing. He's honored to be the veep. Launching into a list. |
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| James | 10:36:47 PM | 9/11 |
| James | 10:37:05 PM | Threat. |
| Chuck | 10:37:06 PM | Fear Factor Again |
| Chuck | 10:37:14 PM | Be afraid and vote for Bush. |
| James | 10:37:29 PM | Responsibility. Threat. Aggressive use of power. |
| James | 10:38:10 PM | It's over. |
| Chuck | 10:38:24 PM | Well, what do you think, over all? |
| Chuck | 10:38:39 PM | Or do you need to cogitate some? |
| James | 10:38:42 PM | Mike just said "Feh" |
| Chuck | 10:38:46 PM | LOL! |
| James | 10:39:17 PM | I think it was boring, and I wonder what kind of viewer-ship there was. I'm going to look for some response. |

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